Correspondence between Rick Allen and myself regarding the
From: Rick A <email@example.com>
To: Joe Payne <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Payne family
Thanks, Joe, I was able to look at all but the last 4 pages - error'ed out. I did see a few names that were interesting - there was a William Hall but case just said continued - I saw another Hall on that page but couldn't make out first name. I also saw Micajah Pennington on one page - I believe Penningtons and Halls are connected in TN and VA.
I hope you will send me the transcriptions when you get them.
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at
8:56 AM, Joe Payne <email@example.com>
I plan on sometime trying to translate these. I think they are around the same time that the translated records you sent are. James and John must have gotten themselves into some serious trouble with the House of Entertainment along the Devils Race Path. Not to proud of that but it is history.
I sent you a link from Google Drive and the link below should also work. Let me know if you have problems. File too large for Yahoo Mail.
Thanks Joe. Yes, I would be interested in looking at these Lee County - while it might not mention Birdwell, there could be other names I recognize that might help me piece this family together. Thank you!
Do you have any indication that James or John Payne ever lived in Jackson or Smith co. TN?
On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 10:34 PM, Joe Payne <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
I have been busy with a couple of family reunions of distant relatives and unable to spend the time I would like on the information you sent me.
I must say that the brothers James and John Payne were busy in Lee County courts. I searched out some copies of other cases that James and John were involved in during this same time in Grand Jury trials and depositions made by them and others in the Lee County, Va court records. I have had these of years and never transcribed them. Just looking through them I do not see the name Birdwell in any.
I will send along scans of the documents if you might be interested in looking over them. The scans are pretty good and names can be made out.
I will spend some more time on your transcriptions and when time permits do some more digging.
Just let me know if you would like to take a look at the records from Lee County mentioning James and John Payne.
Thank you so much for your response. The odd part is the case was in Lee Co. VA - I wrote to the VA State Library to ask why it was under Augusta Co. and they said because that is where the Appeals Court was - the case was appealed. The Lee Co. records from this era do not survive but this one did because it was appealed.
I'm not sure if you have used the Virginia Chancery Records - they are online and a wonderful resource - not all counties are published yet though. Go to this link - http://www.lva.virginia.gov/ chancery/ - and enter in Birdwell and Payne in the Surname fields at the bottom and case 1813-003 Augusta County will come up. If you click view details, you can see the actual court record. There are 29 pages in total. I will give you my notes as an attachment - I am interested in this whole connection and trying to sort out who all these people were - Why was William Birdwell involved with the Paynes? He seems to have traveled to Lee Co. VA and become involved in business dealings with them, selling them a slave - note it says slave was sold in state of Tennessee.
There was an Andrew Payne who was affiliated with my Halls in Smith Co. TN in early 1800s - not sure if he is related to your Paynes.
This case does deal with things before 1810 - the slave sale was 1806. The Devil's Racepath is mentioned in the file - I'm glad you explained what that was.
My main focus is on trying to learn about Halls in Washington Co/Sullivan Co. TN and in Lee Co. VA - and potential connections to Birdwells. William Birdwell moved to Jackson Co. TN which is where I have recently located John Hall who married Mary Polly Hash from Montgomery Co/Grayson Co. VA - this John Hall died in Lee Co. VA in 1826.
Curious after you look at the case what your thoughts are.
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 7:02 PM, Joe Payne <email@example.com> wrote:
Great hearing from you and am sure the Payne you refer to are my Payne's. I too have a DNA quandary that points towards a direct connection to another family name being EDWARDS. Many years of searching have ended about 1780 with my direct line and just until I sent my DNA in about 15 years ago did I find exact matches at 34 markers with a family that had been in the colonies long before mine supposedly appeared about that time.
A professional genealogist helped me in the mid 1990's with my line in the Scott/Lee Counties, Virginia which led me to research the court records and found that my progenitor John Payne's brother James was quite a infamous character. He even had a old wagon road named in his honor in Lee County named "The Devil's Race Path".
Most of that is on my website so I won't go over it and can give you links if you haven't already seen it.
There is really no much more information that I have other than what is on my site. I try to give anyone who wants information what they need by posting it so don't have a lot more to share, but if you would consider sharing the case you found concerning William Birdwell I would really appreciate it. James and John Payne's father, Reuben and probably his oldest James used the Clinch River that runs into the Tennessee River at an old outpost named Southwest Point, famous for travelers moving west by river and that may explain how the Birdwell/Payne connection may have come about.
The dates of the Augusta Co. Va would be very interesting if it were earlier than say 1810 or there about. I have no record of any of my Payne's in Augusta Co. and wonder if it is my James Payne at all.
I will await your response and hope you will consider sharing that case and any other information you may like to share.
Mr. Payne, I came upon your site while researching information on a John and James Payne of Lee Co. VA and am now quite intrigued. I have been trying to determine my Hall ancestry and following DNA and paper leads am led to believe there is a connection with the Birdwell family. Recently, I came across an early court case from Lee County which was preserved under the Augusta County chancery cases because it had been appealed to the Superior Court in Staunton. The case is one in which William Birdwell sues James Payne - I've read through it - quite interesting as I had no idea how William Birdwell who lived in Jackson Co. TN would be in a court case in Lee Co. VA (BTW, John Hall whom I think is my Hall progenitor died in 1820s in Lee Co. VA supposedly). I wasn't sure if you are aware of this court case as it is under Augusta Co.
I now see on your website that you have researched the Paynes extensively and they lived in Washington Co. TN (NC) which is also of interest to me - I now suspect the Paynes knew Birdwell from there as he lived there until moving further west. I note with interest the names Nathan Shipley and David Dyer. There seem to be Shipleys connected to the Halls and Birdwells in a roundabout way and this David Dyer was a witness to a deed for Thomas Hall, grantee in 1792, of a tract of land in Washington Co. in which Leaven Morris was grantor.
I'm not sure I have a specific question but wanted: 1) to let you know of this court case if you were not aware of it: and 2) to offer to compare notes on these lines. I am unsure if the Birdwells and Paynes were in any way related but Birdwell seemed to have traveled all the way from jackson Co. TN to Lee Co. VA and made business deals, etc. with the Paynes - seem to have been affiliated in some manner. I have not proven a connection to Birdwells but my suspicion is that Thomas Hall married a Birdwell. I have lots of DNA connections to Birdwells.
Hope to hear from you.