Correspondence between Rick Allen and myself
regarding the
Virginia
Chancery Court Case, 1813-003 Augusta
From: Rick A <rick1547@gmail.com>
To: Joe Payne <joe@joepayne.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2018 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Payne family
Thanks, Joe, I was able to look at all but the last 4 pages - error'ed out. I did see a few names that were
interesting - there was a William Hall but case just
said continued - I saw another Hall on that page but couldn't make out first
name. I also saw Micajah Pennington on one page
- I believe Penningtons and Halls are connected in TN
and VA.
I hope you will send me
the transcriptions when you get them.
Rick
On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at
8:56 AM, Joe Payne <joe@joepayne.org>
wrote:
Thanks Rick,
I plan on sometime trying to translate
these. I think they are around the same time that the translated records
you sent are. James and John must have gotten themselves into some
serious trouble with the House of Entertainment along the Devils Race
Path. Not to proud of that but it is history.
I sent you a link from Google Drive and the link
below should also work. Let me know if you have problems. File too
large for Yahoo Mail.
Thanks,
Joe Payne
From: Rick A <rick1547@gmail.com>
To: Joe Payne <joe@joepayne.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2018 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: Payne family
Thanks Joe. Yes, I would be interested in
looking at these Lee County - while it might not mention Birdwell, there could
be other names I recognize that might help me piece this family together.
Thank you!
Do you have any indication that James or John Payne
ever lived in Jackson or Smith co. TN?
Rick
On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 10:34 PM, Joe Payne <joe@joepayne.org> wrote:
Rick,
I have been busy with a couple of family
reunions of distant relatives and unable to spend the time I would like on the
information you sent me.
I must say that the brothers James and John
Payne were busy in Lee County courts. I searched out some copies of other
cases that James and John were involved in during this same time in Grand Jury
trials and depositions made by them and others in the Lee County, Va court records. I have had these of years and never
transcribed them. Just looking through them I do not see the name
Birdwell in any.
I will send along scans of the documents if you
might be interested in looking over them. The scans are pretty good and names can be made out.
I will spend some more time on your
transcriptions and when time permits do some more digging.
Just let me know if you would like to take a look at the records from Lee County mentioning James
and John Payne.
Joe Payne
From: Rick A <rick1547@gmail.com>
To: Joe Payne <joe@joepayne.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2018 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: Payne family
Hi Joe,
Thank you so much for your response. The
odd part is the case was in Lee Co. VA - I wrote
to the VA State Library to ask why it was under Augusta Co. and they said
because that is where the Appeals Court was - the case was appealed. The
Lee Co. records from this era do not survive but this one did because it was
appealed.
I'm not sure if you have used the Virginia
Chancery Records - they are online and a wonderful resource - not all counties
are published yet though. Go to this link - http://www.lva.virginia.gov/
chancery/ - and enter in Birdwell and Payne in the Surname fields at the
bottom and case 1813-003 Augusta County will come up. If you click view
details, you can see the actual court record. There are 29 pages in
total. I will give you my notes as an attachment - I am interested in
this whole connection and trying to sort out who all these people were - Why
was William Birdwell involved with the Paynes?
He seems to have traveled to Lee Co. VA and become involved in business
dealings with them, selling them a slave - note it says slave was sold in state
of Tennessee.
There was an Andrew Payne who was affiliated
with my Halls in Smith Co. TN in early 1800s - not sure if he is related to
your Paynes.
This case does deal with things before 1810 -
the slave sale was 1806. The Devil's Racepath is mentioned in the file -
I'm glad you explained what that was.
My main focus is on
trying to learn about Halls in Washington Co/Sullivan Co. TN and in Lee Co. VA
- and potential connections to Birdwells.
William Birdwell moved to Jackson Co. TN which is where I have recently located
John Hall who married Mary Polly Hash from Montgomery Co/Grayson Co. VA - this
John Hall died in Lee Co. VA in 1826.
Curious after you look at the case what your
thoughts are.
Sincerely,
Rick Allen
On Sat, Jul 14, 2018 at 7:02 PM, Joe Payne <joe@joepayne.org> wrote:
Rick,
Great hearing from you and am sure the Payne you
refer to are my Payne's. I too have a DNA quandary that points
towards a direct connection to another family name being EDWARDS.
Many years of searching have ended about 1780 with my direct line and just
until I sent my DNA in about 15 years ago did I find exact matches at 34
markers with a family that had been in the colonies long before mine supposedly
appeared about that time.
A professional genealogist helped me in the mid
1990's with my line in the Scott/Lee Counties, Virginia which led me to
research the court records and found that my progenitor John Payne's brother
James was quite a infamous
character. He even had a
old wagon road named in his honor in Lee County named "The Devil's Race
Path".
Most of that is on my website so I won't go over
it and can give you links if you haven't already seen it.
There is really no much more information that I have other than what
is on my site. I try to give anyone who wants information what they need
by posting it so don't have a lot more to share, but if you would consider
sharing the case you found concerning William Birdwell I would really
appreciate it. James and John Payne's father, Reuben and probably his
oldest James used the Clinch River that runs into the Tennessee River at an old
outpost named Southwest Point, famous for travelers moving west by river and
that may explain how the Birdwell/Payne connection may have come about.
The dates of the Augusta Co. Va
would be very interesting if it were earlier than say 1810 or there
about. I have no record of any of my Payne's in Augusta Co. and wonder if
it is my James Payne at all.
I will await your response and hope you will
consider sharing that case and any other information you may like to share.
Respectfully,
Joe Payne
From: Rick A <rick1547@gmail.com>
To: joe@joepayne.org
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2018 11:41 PM
Subject: Payne family
Mr. Payne, I came
upon your site while researching information on a John and James Payne of Lee
Co. VA and am now quite intrigued. I have been trying to determine my
Hall ancestry and following DNA and paper leads am led to believe there is a
connection with the Birdwell family. Recently, I came across an early
court case from Lee County which was preserved under the Augusta County
chancery cases because it had been appealed to the Superior Court in
Staunton. The case is one in which William Birdwell sues James Payne -
I've read through it - quite interesting as I had no idea how William Birdwell
who lived in Jackson Co. TN would be in a court case in Lee Co. VA (BTW, John
Hall whom I think is my Hall progenitor died in 1820s in Lee Co. VA supposedly).
I wasn't sure if you are aware of this court case as it is under Augusta Co.
I now see on your website that you have
researched the Paynes extensively and they lived in
Washington Co. TN (NC) which is also of interest to me - I now suspect the Paynes knew Birdwell from there as he lived there until
moving further west. I note with interest the names Nathan Shipley and
David Dyer. There seem to be Shipleys connected
to the Halls and Birdwells in a roundabout way and
this David Dyer was a witness to a deed for Thomas Hall, grantee in 1792, of a
tract of land in Washington Co. in which Leaven Morris was grantor.
I'm not sure I have a specific question but
wanted: 1) to let you know of this court case if you were not aware of it: and
2) to offer to compare notes on these lines. I am unsure if the Birdwells and Paynes were in any
way related but Birdwell seemed to have traveled all the way from jackson Co. TN to Lee Co. VA and made business deals, etc.
with the Paynes - seem to have been affiliated in
some manner. I have not proven a connection to Birdwells but my suspicion is that Thomas Hall
married a Birdwell. I have lots of DNA connections to Birdwells.
Hope to hear from you.
Rick Allen